Security Confidential S16 E2 Allie Hunter

Manoj Tandon (00:01.338)
Hello everyone, this is your host Manoj Tandon. Welcome to another episode of Dark Rhiino Security, Security Confidential. Today we have the great Allie Hunter joining us. I say great because she’s protecting children. She is a cybersecurity advocate and the author of Mothers Against Cybercrime. It’s a book addresses the challenges parents face.

in protecting their families online. And I’m sure for many of you listening, that’s going to be a very hot topic. Her books weaves together real life cyber incidents into compelling stories that offer practical advice for navigating the digital world. So, Ali, thank you so much for joining us. It’s a pleasure to have you here. So glad you could take the time to do this for us.

Allie Hunter (00:52.059)
Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Manoj Tandon (00:54.496)
fantastic. Tell me a little bit about yourself, your background and how you got into protecting families against cybercr-

Allie Hunter (01:08.369)
So my background is very diverse as you saw. I planned it that way. I’m what I call a forever student. I love learning things. If something sparks my interest, I dive full force into it to learn everything I can about it. So I started my career in marketing and I loved that. It was a lot of fun. And then I fell in love with the graphic design.

and web development aspects of it. So I wanted to further my educational background in fine arts. So went back to school to learn more about fine arts. And then while I was there, I fell in love with the art therapy aspect of it. So I went into psychology and I figured, you know, that can still play a role in my marketing career because psychology plays a heavy role in marketing.

Manoj Tandon (01:53.998)
Wow.

Allie Hunter (02:03.045)
But then while I was in there, I decided I wanted to help out kids with learning disabilities. So I became an ABA therapist, a neurodevelopmental teacher. I worked with kiddos who ranged with learning disabilities all the way, you know, just from ADHD all the way up to cerebral palsy. And I loved doing that. I love working with kids. I always have. Then I got pregnant and I

some unfortunate circumstances led me to becoming a single mother. So because of that, I wasn’t able to finish my career just because I wanted more flexibility and I wanted to be around my daughter more. So I reached out to a local Facebook mom’s group and I said anonymously, you know, I said my situation. Does anybody have any ideas of what I can do for a new career path?

and someone mentioned the Single Mothers program with the women in technology. Have you heard of them?

Manoj Tandon (03:09.232)
I have not heard of women in technology. Definitely have heard of women in cybersecurity. That’s a program too. And it’s actually an award that’s given out every year.

Allie Hunter (03:16.292)
Yes.

Allie Hunter (03:20.689)
Okay, so yeah, it’s very similar to WISIS, but this one’s women in technology. It’s a different one, a different nonprofit. But yeah, so I found out about the Single Mothers program, which basically it’s, if you get accepted into the program, they give you a free education, cybersecurity education at Emory University. They help with childcare during your studies. It was just an amazing opportunity. I found that-

Manoj Tandon (03:24.994)
Okay.

Manoj Tandon (03:47.844)
That’s a great deal.

Allie Hunter (03:49.465)
that program two days before applications were due. So I hurried, I busted my butt for two days because you have to get you know letters of recommendation and not everybody can just up and write a letter of recommendation, fill out the application, update my resume, answer a lot of questions but I managed to do that. I went through some interviews and I got accepted into the program. That led me to

Well, so I started, I started trying to attend as many free events that I was able to, because again, single mother budget, you know, not a lot of rooms for that. But I heard one of the speakers at one of the conferences I went to, she said, your net work is your net worth. And so I just started networking like crazy. And part of that was I met one of the professors who was teaching us at Emory.

Ben Halpert, he’s the founder of Savvy Cyber Kids. And he mentioned looking up, do you know Mr. Robot on, I think it was Netflix? The TV show.

Manoj Tandon (05:01.774)
Yes, I do know the TV show. I haven’t watched a single episode of it, but I do know it.

Allie Hunter (05:08.433)
Well, he mentioned to watch that and I was looking for it because I was new to technology, to the tech field at least. And he mentioned to watch that so you could get kind of a real life view on what cyber and tech people do all day. And I really appreciated that so I reached out to him. I said, thank you, it was nice to meet you. I enjoyed your lecture and thank you for the recommendation. Well, he then asked me to work.

on his marketing team for the nonprofit, Sabi Cyber Kids. One thing led to another and I ended up writing a book.

Manoj Tandon (05:44.4)
You know that your story is fantastic. And again, it’s something we’ve talked about a lot on the show where cybersecurity seems to be a unique place where people have come into it from all different backgrounds. It’s not your typical computer science, mathematics, you know, the person that you would think would be the proverbial.

cybersecurity export. It’s a very diversified community of people with very varied backgrounds and that’s that makes it very interesting.

Allie Hunter (06:23.439)
I love that aspect about it because yeah, I had no idea it was this diverse and meeting everybody that I have so far, it’s amazing all the different backgrounds that we come from and then we come together and work together by keeping people safe online, keeping companies safe.

Manoj Tandon (06:40.346)
So there’s one thing that, there’s a lot of things you said that are very interesting, but I’d like to understand a little bit about art therapy. know, we’ve had a laughter yoga coach on this show way back when we’ve had brand managers on this show and psychologists. We’ve never had someone with an art therapy background. So I’ve heard about it and I’ve heard that it can be very effective, but

What? Let me ask the dumb question. What is it? Like, what exactly is it? And then we’ll get back to your book, I promise, but I’d love to…

Allie Hunter (07:18.647)
So I can’t speak much about art therapy because I do not have a degree in it and I think I sat in maybe two sessions because again, quickly after that, I went straight into the behavioral therapy aspect of it. But essentially from someone who’s not, you know, majored in it, it’s a form of therapy to help.

people with any emotional distress, any past traumas. For example, have you heard of, call it horse therapy, but it’s like equestrian therapy, I believe.

Manoj Tandon (07:54.646)
I have not heard of it.

Allie Hunter (07:56.773)
Well, it’s another form of therapy. I mean, they have music therapy, just…

Manoj Tandon (07:59.728)
That we know about quite a bit.

Allie Hunter (08:05.039)
Okay, so yeah, it’s similar to that, but you can paint pictures. Again, I feel like I don’t have enough of a knowledge base in that, and I don’t feel like I’m doing it enough justice, because it’s such an amazing therapeutic technique, but in simple terms, that’s what it is.

Manoj Tandon (08:23.082)
I mean, the work, your work with children, your therapeutic work, I would imagine involves a lot of patience. Now, is patience something that you have learned or is patience something that you would say you’ve always had that’s been a part of your character makeup?

Allie Hunter (08:44.267)
I would say I’ve always had patience. I am the oldest of four kids. I’m the oldest of 10 grandkids. I now am taking care of my grandmother and I took care of my grandfather before he passed last year. And there’s just, I just have a lot of empathy and patience for all types of beings.

Manoj Tandon (09:00.343)
Sorry to hear.

Manoj Tandon (09:09.516)
Is there, you know, there’s a lot talked about these days where children, we’re seeing a lot more autism or ADHD or other kinds of issues that are requiring various therapeutic modalities. Do you, just in your experience or if you have an opinion on it.

Is this a result of our ever-changing environment or is it that we’re just now, we know a lot more and we’re able to diagnose a lot more things and they were always there?

Allie Hunter (09:46.101)
would say probably a mixture of both. Just the type of environment that we live in today surrounded by constant distractions, so much technology.

The way that we are starting to operate and function, or not starting, but have been, it’s just a lot different. And then mixing with that, we are studying the brain more, so we are more aware of more disease, more mental disabilities. We’re able to pinpoint patterns that we see and maybe ways to fix certain ways that might be off.

things like that so I would say a mixture of both.

Manoj Tandon (10:35.152)
You know, it seems like, and this is leading directly into the cybersecurity topic here, but the world the new generation is coming up in is lived and talked about in sound bites. And there was an article just last week that I read where a lot of college professors are mystified that most of their students can’t read an entire book. They’re not taught to read an entire book. They don’t have

the attention span to read an entire book. And this is maybe the result of spending a lot of screen time and just looking for those sound bites, know, just looking at trying to know enough to address what you need to address in with a minimal effort.

What are your thoughts on that?

Allie Hunter (11:36.059)
think that’s very unfortunate, but you know, I do see it. Even with myself sometimes, if I have a busy work week where I’m constantly online, interacting, maybe on social media or something, I really feel myself having, you know, not as great of an attention span. And so I can’t imagine for these kids who are, you know, younger and surrounded by even more distractions that maybe I’m not aware of.

and it’s just hard to focus. So taking a long chunk of time and reading an entire book seems like a long time when you could again use spark notes or use something to where you get the information quicker.

Manoj Tandon (12:18.042)
But you’re not getting the information, I guess. And that’s the point because a summary does not a book make, as you well know, being an author. There’s a lot more about a story that can be imparted when you read the whole thing. And you get swept away into a virtual world, if you will, in a sense. That is all lost in the Cliff Notes version of

reading books or doing anything I should say it’s not just reading books which brings us to this now you you’ve actually in your book focused a lot on real life stories right

Manoj Tandon (13:03.714)
Is that, first of all, is there one that sticks out? Is there any, or share a couple that stick out and then I’ll ask the next part to this two-parter, but.

Allie Hunter (13:14.501)
So I would say the one that sticks out to me the most is about a baby monitor being hacked. so when I started writing this book, my daughter was just over a year old. So that story really resonated with me because I use my baby monitor all the time for naps, for overnight sleeping. So basically the baby monitor got hacked and the hacker was using profanity through it.

And just the thought of a stranger looking into my baby’s monitor, it was terrifying. So it really resonated with me. So that’s the story that resonates with me and stands out the most. But I wanted to make sure that I captivated all parents. So I made sure to include stories that include ages, you know, zero to 18. And there’s even a book or a chapter in there about

a parent’s parent, like a grandparent, just because, you know, not everyone is going to want to read about a baby monitor being hacked. It doesn’t relate to them. It doesn’t help them, which I totally understand. So that’s why.

Manoj Tandon (14:25.506)
Incidentally, was your baby monitor hacked through Ring because there were a whole bunch that happened there.

Allie Hunter (14:31.895)
No, not on Ring. I don’t know which system it was. It was a Wi-Fi encrypted one. So my biggest tip on there is don’t get a Wi-Fi baby monitor at all. I know it’s convenient. You can use your phone, but just I wouldn’t do it personally. But I guess another story that stands out. I do have a daughter. So I am a little bit scared of cyber bullying later on because I know she’ll be on social media. I’m sure.

Manoj Tandon (14:38.2)
Okay.

Allie Hunter (15:02.477)
that there’s a story on cyber bullying and well trigger warning but she commits am I allowed to say that on here? Okay she ends up committing suicide and it’s real

Manoj Tandon (15:12.228)
Yeah.

That’s terrible. That’s terrible.

Allie Hunter (15:19.931)
Yeah, there’s a lot of trigger warnings in this book, but I did that because I want parents to know that this is really happening. Like these stories are real. I put the story in there and then I attached the exact news article that I got it from to show like this is really happening. You think it won’t happen to your kid or you think like, you know, that’s there’s no way, but it’s happening.

Manoj Tandon (15:44.368)
But how are you to know as a parent? I mean, this is at the fundamental core of it, right? A lot of parents have given their kids a tablet. I hope not a phone, but a lot of them have given kids a phone. And it’s not like any of these services are really set up to be parent friendly, quote unquote, right? They’re just not. Which is a whole nother topic that I’d love to hit on if…

If we had anybody in Congress that could force this, would be something worth doing genuinely. It was giving parents real control over their children’s devices. End of story. Privacy can go to hell on that one. I said it. But how would you come to know that your five-year-old, your 10-year-old, or 14-year-old is even getting bullied? They’re not going to tell you.

Allie Hunter (16:42.075)
So, okay, a couple of questions. Have you heard of the bark phone?

Manoj Tandon (16:46.617)
No.

Allie Hunter (16:48.145)
So the Bark Phone, I was just recently introduced to it by working with Savvy Cyber Kids, so I’m not 100 % familiar with it, but I do know that it is a phone device that it gives parents way more control over screen time, over what apps that they can download. The founder of Savvy Cyber Kids just bought his son a Bark Phone and took away the iPhone.

I don’t know if you know this, but the iPhone, the screen time, parent controls, they don’t work. They’re not designed to work, you know? They want people to use the phones. I mean, they’re designed to be addictive.

Manoj Tandon (17:27.726)
Yeah, I mean, look, it’s like the old days where we were advertising cigarettes and liquor to kids. mean, look, anytime you have a corporate interest, and I know I am not going on the left-wing path here, listeners just understand it, but this is kind of a sensitive topic because it involves children. And as an adult, whatever you want to do, rock and roll. None of us have a right to know. Do whatever you want as long as everyone’s consulting, consenting, I should say.

Have a good time. But when it comes to young kids, that does not apply, period. End of story, right? And the parents have to have a mechanism by which they can monitor. And you’re right. I have a 10-year-old, and this is a topic that we deal with all the time. Now I’m able to configure firewall rules. So.

I’m able to lock down a lot of things, but I don’t expect the average parent to know how to create firewall rules, much less how to implement a real firewall in their residence. yeah, it’s overwhelming. So how would you, the psychologist part of you, how would you, what do we need to be doing as parents to know what’s going on with our kids online life?

Allie Hunter (18:34.513)
It’s overwhelming.

Allie Hunter (18:54.161)
So my biggest takeaway, using my background in psychology, working with kids, open communication with trust is a huge key. That’s my biggest tip I could ever tell anybody is make sure you harness an open communication. I know a lot of teens, I have some mom friends with their teens, whenever they ask them questions, they roll their eyes. But if you…

I mean at this point consistency is key. Ask them, I don’t know, what’s the biggest social media trend going on now? Just show some type of interest in what they do online because that will just give them even more of the thought to trust you and eventually, hopefully you can talk about everything online. One of the stories in my book,

The mom, I guess, did a great job fostering that open communication. So the daughter was able to tell the mom what was going on. And there was a stalker. I don’t want to give away too much, but the mom and daughter were able to work together as a team, lure the stalker to a school, and he got arrested. So if you can somehow get on your child’s team, show a lot of interest. Don’t judge them.

Maybe throw out a safety tip here and there, very nonchalantly, but again, you want to be on their team. I think that’s a great way to start working together on online safety.

Manoj Tandon (20:30.86)
Ellie, if I could paraphrase here, you’re saying be a parent.

Allie Hunter (20:36.175)
Yes.

Manoj Tandon (20:37.05)
So what a novel concept, you know, and I’m being sarcastic, of course, right? But that is very, very true.

And it goes against, you see a lot of people wanting to control everything with tech. But if you’re a parent, that’s gonna probably give you the best control more than any tech will ever be able to do. But do you think there, what is the role of these companies, the gaming platforms, your social media platforms in safeguarding children?

Allie Hunter (21:16.625)
I’m sorry, repeat that.

Manoj Tandon (21:17.648)
I was going to say, do you think is the role of the platforms? Like, you know, all your social media platforms, your gaming platforms that children use in safeguarding them.

Allie Hunter (21:36.261)
their role in safeguarding that.

Manoj Tandon (21:38.082)
Yeah, should they be, should, should for example, and I’m just picking on them for the hell of it, is Facebook be more accountable? If, or more responsible?

Allie Hunter (21:49.551)
think they should. We all probably think they should, but they’re not. That’s not their main goal. Their main goal is to get the users on there and to use their platform as much as possible.

Manoj Tandon (22:04.218)
Yes, that is there, but they’re a money making operation. Is there, you know, there’s advocacy groups out there that are advocating for legislation that would change the behavior of some of these platforms. The counterpoint to that is that people are saying it’s free speech and, you know, it’s a place where you should be able to say whatever you want.

Manoj Tandon (22:32.88)
do you think which side has it?

Allie Hunter (22:38.385)
From what I personally witnessed, I think the free speech is currently winning. However, I wish it wasn’t that way. But if we are aware of that, we can start working on things. You know, we can’t control our outside world. We can control us, and we think we can control our kids, but really we just have to teach them how to control themselves.

So even if the legislation doesn’t go in our favor and parents’ favor, we still need to take initiative to teach our kids how to stay safe regardless of what goes on in the outside world. Does that make sense?

Manoj Tandon (23:21.23)
Yes, it very much makes sense.

Allie Hunter (23:26.947)
It’s a lot of work, I know, but again, my book, I try to take the really big, fancy, scary cybersecurity information and tips and I try to put them in, you know, parent terms on, okay, put this in non-tech language so I can figure this out and make it a safer place for my kids.

Manoj Tandon (23:55.312)
Is there a particular age until which you should stop your kids from using online platforms?

Allie Hunter (24:07.697)
What do you mean?

Manoj Tandon (24:08.9)
Like, is it okay for a six-year-old to be on, I don’t know, Instagram or something? I’m not picking on them for any particular reason, but just…

Allie Hunter (24:19.873)
so personally I say no, absolutely not. But again, you know, we’re all different. We all have different motives. Some people want to post their child and maybe market their kiddo. I don’t agree with that, but if that’s what they want to do, then there are safer ways to go about doing that and precautions. For example, I

If I post my daughter, I put a little sticker on her face. I never share my location. For example, if I’m on vacation at a beach, I’m never posting which beach I was at while I’m there.

Manoj Tandon (25:00.268)
Do you have a, is there a story behind this one?

Allie Hunter (25:05.487)
Like a personal story?

Manoj Tandon (25:06.272)
No, one in your book that you researched that came up.

Allie Hunter (25:11.021)
Yes, there is a book, which chapter is it? Well, there’s a couple of them, but one that stands out. So a mom, she has public profile pages and she posts, you know, I’m cooking a cake with my daughter, her favorite and put her favorite cake. I’m at this ballet recital. She’s, you know, doing this, that and the other. Well,

the gentleman who was stalking their page ends up showing up to one of the recitals and the mom and dad notice it because I don’t want give away too much.

Manoj Tandon (25:50.516)
I’ll give a give us a little bit. Give us a little bit. We’ll buy the book. But we give us a little sneak preview here because the stories are what the audience is going to really relate to that.

Allie Hunter (25:53.457)
Here’s a sneak preview, yeah.

Allie Hunter (26:04.625)
Well, yeah, well, because the mom was posting such private information, such as locations, she shared that the daughter carries around a lucky rabbit’s foot. They noticed a strange man in the audience and he had a rabbit’s foot in his hand. Yeah. So.

Manoj Tandon (26:26.489)
not good.

Manoj Tandon (26:31.468)
What about another child favorite, Minecraft and Roblox?

Allie Hunter (26:39.557)
That’s another terrifying topic. So one of the stories in there, basically what parents need to realize is that there are predators going into these gaming rooms acting as kids and they will befriend your child and they will get things out of your child because your child’s unaware of, they think, it’s just a kid my age, you know? For example,

There was a predator who became friends with this little boy and he got all of this information on the little boy, where they lived, his parents’ names. Just where they live is scary enough. But then the predator started asking for pictures from the little boy and he started saying no and started backing away. Well, the predator started threatening, you know, I know where you live. You have to send me these pictures or I will come hurt your family.

Manoj Tandon (27:40.822)
I hope none of those came true.

Allie Hunter (27:47.237)
I’m not sure how that story ended. I just got the news article and that’s the threatening part of it. But yeah, I mean.

It’s happening out there.

Manoj Tandon (28:01.616)
As kids get older and much more tech savvy, give us some practical tips for parents. What can they do? So we’re no longer talking to eight, nine, 10 year old, right? Someone that you can have much more oversight on, but as they become 14, 15, 16, 17, even 18.

Allie Hunter (28:22.929)
Again, my biggest key is open communication. You really want to have their trust. You want to find out what they’re doing online. I mean, if you’re the parent, if they’re under 18 living in your house, say, you know, I have to be a follower of you or I know one parent, he has all the passwords to all their social media accounts until they were 18. And I mean,

They can’t really say no to that, you know? They’re your child, they’re under 18, they’re a minor. You pay all the bills in the house, you probably pay for their phone, and if you want to have access to their social media, you have all the right to do so, in my opinion.

Manoj Tandon (29:06.756)
Well, in my opinion too, and this is where I think we have a disconnect with the companies because that is not their opinion. Right. So, and to me, that does not work. You know, it.

Allie Hunter (29:23.09)
Well, again, that’s where some accountability needs to come into place. I mean, we can fight as hard as we want to in legislation, but at the end of the day, we only have control over ourselves and of our kids. So if we have to, unfortunately, fight against the rules that are in place, then we just have to do that, know? Spend our energy on that.

Manoj Tandon (29:43.908)
Yeah, those because, you know, we’ve had, you know, we’ve done the October in October, we used to do this whole horror stories bit. And there’s been some horror stories that have come about that people have found out whether they have, you know, something as intrusive as they were pregnant because of the ads they started getting because of the searches they were doing.

Again, there’s a lot, know, people can go back and they can look at security confidential and look all those up. But all those things I think can be deeply worrying to an individual and they can have a real psychiatric effect and unintended consequence. So.

Manoj Tandon (30:34.244)
There is a balance, and I know for a fact that we have certainly lost that balance. And what you’re saying is very, very true is be a parent first. And I think that’s probably the most salient advice. And it’s, I hate to say it, but I think it’s even politically incorrect advice in this day and age to some degree, right? People want external mechanisms of action for everything. Is there a pill that solves my disease?

Is there a program that educates my kids? Is there something that’ll turn Johnny into a superstar athlete? Well, yeah, there is. It’s called you. But that requires a lot of giving. the world has changed. mean, in the world that I grew up in, that wasn’t a problem because a lot of the parents had stay-at-home moms or

Allie Hunter (31:14.673)
Yep.

Manoj Tandon (31:32.558)
and whatnot. you know, we didn’t have social media because the technology just didn’t exist. but as the world has evolved.

that’s changed and I think maybe we’ve gotten a little bit away from that connection that used to always be there with the children. In my opinion only.

Allie Hunter (31:54.127)
Yeah, well and as these, as everything evolves, our parenting techniques have to evolve as well. We have to stay on top of it.

Manoj Tandon (32:06.586)
For the teenager that may be listening and saying, my mom’s too intrusive. I don’t want her getting into my stuff. What are you two people talking about? You know, I know what I’m doing. You think my mom knows anything about social media or dad has a clue? I’m trading in bitcoins. They don’t even know.

Allie Hunter (32:29.851)
Yeah, that’s a hard one. And I’m still researching that myself, because again, I have a two-year-old, so my main focus was the younger group. But I do have mom friends with teens, and they ask me the same questions. So I’m still researching it as well. But again, the main thing is fostering open communications. And like I mentioned previously, the bark phone, they have better

like app control or parental control things to do on that. Sorry, I just lost my entire train of thought.

Manoj Tandon (33:08.814)
That’s okay. We’ll get you back. There’s quite a few things here to talk about. When you look at the parenting mentality, it’s not the parenting mentality. Just scratch that. It’s human mentality, because we’re in the cybersecurity business and we see the same thing. People become acutely aware of how serious cybersecurity is as a problem in their organization.

once there is a successful attack. Until then the issue is it no it’ll never happen to me you know it never happens to me. I am going to assume that the same thing holds true, the human nature being what it is, with parents. That these issues are somebody else’s problems. They don’t happen to us you know and

Is there, how do you get past that as an advocate for children?

Allie Hunter (34:11.121)
So that’s where the thought of my book came into play because, okay, so again, I think I previously mentioned that I had a small stalking incident in my early 20s. So I thought as a parent, I was being overly cautious, but then entering the field, I realized, no, I’m not at all. And in fact, in the past year, I had one mom friend who her Instagram got hacked. So all of her…

Manoj Tandon (34:22.064)
Yeah.

Allie Hunter (34:39.919)
babys photos, everything got hacked. Within 24 hours, her bank account also got hacked. So, you know, people can easily hack your Instagram, go straight to your bank account, and she didn’t think anything of it until it actually happened to her. And same with me. I thought I was being safe online, but then I started reading all of these stories and finding gaps that I’d been missing. Not because I didn’t care, I just…

I didn’t think anything would happen to me, but things did happen to me and my friend. So with my book, I tried taking my psychology background to figure out how can I really gain the attention of these parents to where they have enough empathy so that they can retain the information that I’m trying to give them to keep their family safe online. And for me, that was using real

stories, I made them a little bit more scary, fictionalized, and then I again put a picture of the actual news article of where it came from. So hopefully, even if you just have, because I know we’re busy as moms, well parents in general, even if you have maybe five minutes to read one of the chapters in my book that pertains to the age of your child, I feel like that would be

enough to help you set yourself up for a little bit more of online privacy and protection.

Manoj Tandon (36:13.08)
Now, are you folks working with any schools or communities to get the message out there? And if so, what are some programs that people could get involved with?

Allie Hunter (36:27.025)
So there’s actually a lot of ways. So one of the ways is we have workshops that we’ve developed. We have the workshops for ages pre-K all the way through high school. And you go to our website, get the workshop information, and you basically take our materials to the school and deliver them. For example, for the pre-K program, we have books that you bring and they’re

geared for ages one to five because the founder of Sabi Cyber Kids, he researched and found that the most information heavily absorbed is ages one to five. So we really want to start kids practicing online safety that early. So the books that you would go into the classroom to read to these kids is very pre-K friendly. Then we have coloring sheets. They can make their own cyber hero.

and they pick out a username that they can use online that has no personal identifiable information because we don’t want that. And that’s just, it teaches them very base that. And then we also have workshops for, you know, the high school students. So that’s one way you can do workshops at your school, your local schools. Another way is to, if you work for a company and you want to have an employee volunteer program,

you can do the same thing. just download our free workshops and go into schools and teach the kiddos. Or you can even use them at home if you don’t want to teach it.

Manoj Tandon (38:02.672)
Now, when they download your workshops, is there a train the trainer type of an approach where you or someone can guide them through it or are they left to their own devices to

Allie Hunter (38:13.413)
You’re left your own devices, however, if you reach out to Savvy Cyber Kids, info at savvysyberkids.org, you can speak to one of us and we’ll schedule a phone call and walk you through how to do it.

Manoj Tandon (38:25.336)
that’s very cool. That’s info at savvy, savvy cyber kids.com, right?

Allie Hunter (38:30.929)
Let me make sure that’s the right one. I can send you all the information as well.

Manoj Tandon (38:37.872)
Yeah, I think that that would be good just so we can have a link there. So if people do want to do a program in their workplace or school.

Allie Hunter (38:47.545)
Yes, it’s info at savvycyberkids.org.

Manoj Tandon (38:51.376)
Alright, that’s fantastic. How many, and you’re saying these programs are everything from pre-k to high school?

Allie Hunter (39:02.587)
Yep. And there’s even a grandparents guide that you can download. So if you want to teach your grandparents online safety, because there’s a lot of scams out there targeting grandparents as well.

Manoj Tandon (39:16.312)
It must have taken a small army of people to put together all these programs for all these different age groups.

Allie Hunter (39:23.365)
Ben, the founder, is one of the most smartest men I’ve ever met and he worked with some educators and put it all together.

Manoj Tandon (39:33.506)
And they’re putting it out there for free. So there’s no strings attached with all of this.

Allie Hunter (39:40.891)
There are books you can buy, yes, but the workshops are free. The newsfeed that I mentioned way earlier, that’s free. We really, our main goal is as a nonprofit to help parents and educators keep our future generations safe.

Manoj Tandon (40:00.304)
Do you have any success stories you could tell us about?

Allie Hunter (40:05.307)
Woo.

Manoj Tandon (40:09.166)
with any schools or community events or anything like that.

Allie Hunter (40:13.873)
So recently, we have just partnered with Cyber4Youth, a young high school student. She was bullied really bad over in California, and she put together her own Cyber4Youth program where she’s getting high school kids to use our workshops to teach other high school kids, which is awesome because as a parent or as an

older person like us, if we go into high school, they’re gonna look at us and probably roll their eyes. But if you have another high school student go in and teach your peers, they’re probably gonna have more attention and teach more than what we would be able to, know, peer to peer.

Manoj Tandon (41:04.516)
that brings a unrelated question to mind, which is, have you seen, is cyber bullying or let’s just say bad actors working against children more prevalent? Does the demographic matter whether they come from an affluent family, a middle class, or it doesn’t really matter.

Allie Hunter (41:30.746)
Not that I’ve seen them.

Manoj Tandon (41:32.784)
So this is one area where your economic background has no bearing on the likelihood of you being a victim.

Allie Hunter (41:44.753)
I would say the predator, it depends on what he’s looking for. If he is looking for money, then yeah, he might target higher value kids. But if he’s looking for, I don’t even like talking about, but you know, more sexual type things, he’s just gonna go for the ease or he or she, whatever predator is gonna go for the easiest target they can find.

Manoj Tandon (42:12.912)
That’s it.

Allie Hunter (42:12.933)
They’re smarter than we realize. They know where to look for what type of kids.

Manoj Tandon (42:19.236)
You know, that is something that’s true in cybercrime across the board. is one area of crime where the opposing, the bad actors are not your run-of-the-mill thugs, you know, that are, you know, doing stupid things. There is an intelligence at play there, both mentally to manipulate the psychology of an individual or an organization, as the case may be.

and to use advanced technical tools, tactics and procedures to do what they want to do. Sitting at home or wherever they happen to be.

Allie Hunter (43:05.969)
Mm-hmm. It’s terrifying.

Manoj Tandon (43:09.402)
Yeah, no, that’s, and I do think, you know, that that’s great work you’re doing with savvy cyber kids, because that to me makes a lot of sense. I think it’ll make a lot of sense to anyone listening where you have a peer to peer network, you get the communities and schools involved, you try and educate people on what’s going on online and affect change there. And, the earlier in the child’s growth cycle that you do it, the better off you’re going to be.

Allie Hunter (43:39.374)
Absolutely.

Manoj Tandon (43:40.294)
So key takeaways, give us some key takeaways that parents can get from your book.

Allie Hunter (43:46.587)
Key takeaways. So I want my parents who are reading this to feel empowered and not overwhelmed. That’s why I tried putting it as non-technical jargon as I could. And again, I cannot stress the importance of open communication enough. And just becoming more aware. Sign up for the Savvy Cyber Kids News Feed because

We send you once a week, you’ll get a list of articles that have happened regarding online safety and what has happened. And if you see an article that stands out to you and you say, how do I prevent this from happening? Shoot us an email. Shoot us a message on one of our social media platforms. And we’ll give you tips right then and there on how to prevent it from happening.

Manoj Tandon (44:39.15)
That’s fantastic. Is there an ability to get a signed copy?

Allie Hunter (44:47.435)
Yeah, I guess send me an email or Savvy Cyber Kids. Again, I can give you that email address and just ask for one and I will figure out how to get it to you.

Manoj Tandon (45:00.218)
Fantastic. So, Ellie, know, we’re towards the end of this podcast, but we’d love to, anything else you want to plug. mean, put up a copy of your book if you have it in front of you.

Allie Hunter (45:12.561)
I do have one somewhere. I guess I should have had it. Let me go get it.

Manoj Tandon (45:18.914)
It’s okay or send Emily a picture, know. Send our producer a picture so we can, we can, it’s always good to have that visual, right? But anything else, your appearances, any talks you’re doing, please.

Allie Hunter (45:22.027)
I’ll send you a picture.

Allie Hunter (45:33.467)
So next year, I actually created the Hunter method, and it’s a cybersecurity awareness training method for employees and corporations. Yeah, teaching them about cybersecurity and how to keep their companies safe. So I’ve already talked at two conferences on it at B-Sides Atlanta and Hacker Halted. And hopefully we’ll be speaking at more conferences next.

year and hopefully putting together all that information so if a company wants to hire me as their new cyber security trainer I would love to do that.

Manoj Tandon (46:13.924)
Fantastic. The Hunter method. So Ali Hunter might, is that where that is coming from?

Allie Hunter (46:20.293)
Yes, sir.

Manoj Tandon (46:22.488)
Hey, why not use your own, put your name to it. It shows you actually believe in it. How was it received at B-Sides by the way? Because that’s always a tough crowd.

Allie Hunter (46:31.909)
They loved it. And actually afterwards, I had my book up front just to show, because I created the Hunter Method and I used it in my book for parents, but I’m gonna use it again for employees and corporations. But I had my book up there and I ended up selling about 10 copies right after I was done with my presentation. So I’m assuming it went pretty well.

Manoj Tandon (46:56.974)
No, no, that’s great. I know we used to do B-sides in Columbus quite a bit, really familiar with that crowd there. They are very techno savvy. They obviously know what’s going on in the world of cybersecurity. And you got some very talented people there. So I was just always curious, know, if it’s well received there, that’s kind of like the good housekeeping seal of approval, if you will.

Allie Hunter (47:10.705)
Mm-hmm.

Allie Hunter (47:25.979)
Welp, I guess I got that seal of approval.

Manoj Tandon (47:28.078)
Yes, we did. That’s fantastic. Is just slightly off topic here, but the Hunter method is that you have a website associated with that.

Allie Hunter (47:39.567)
Not yet,

Manoj Tandon (47:43.28)
Please let us know when you do. And that would be a totally separate conversation.

Allie Hunter (47:48.689)
OK, I definitely will. Yeah, we could have a whole other conversation about that. Keeping companies safe. Human error is the biggest break and hack.

Manoj Tandon (47:54.18)
Yes, there is.

Absolutely.

Manoj Tandon (48:08.366)
Well, Ellie, thank you so much for being here and spending an hour with us today. It’s been a pleasure having you and thanks for the good work you’re doing trying to protect our kids.

Allie Hunter (48:17.765)
Thank you so much for having me, I appreciate it.

Manoj Tandon (48:20.408)
Absolutely. Come back anytime you want to share anything.

Allie Hunter (48:26.545)
Absolutely, thank you.

Manoj Tandon (48:27.844)
Thank you.