Security Confidential S10 E0 Oktane Conference

Jake: Welcome back to yet another episode of the Dark Rhino Security podcast. Today, some of the team sits down with me to talk about their recent trip to the Oktane Conference. All right, to my left?

Jack: Jack Thomas. I’m the senior cloud security engineer.

Chris: Nice. Chris Cazel. I’m one of the Okta engineers.

Mitch: I’m Mitch, one of the full stack engineers here.

Jake: Done deals. So—

Mitch: I only go by my first name. I’m like Zendaya, right?

Jake: Zendaya.

Mitch: Call me Mitch.

Chris: Cher.

Mitch: Cher. Just Mitch.

Jake: I wonder how hard it is to get a single name put on an official driver’s license.

Chris: I don’t know.

Jack: Like McLovin.

Jake: Yeah. [Laughter] Apparently, it was pretty easy for him.

Chris: Yeah, it was.

Jake: We should look into that. Madonna. Seal.

Chris: Seal.

Jack: Legend.

Chris: Prince. He’s my man.

Jake: He went to a symbol, too, at one point.

Chris: The artist formerly known as Prince.

Jake: An unpronounceable symbol for a minute. So, California. Was it San Francisco?

Chris: Yes, sir.

Jake: Okay. How was that?

Chris: Cold, rainy, very cloudy.

Jake: All the normal things you would expect from California.

Chris: Yeah.

Jake: Gotcha. All right. So, Oktane ’19—huge conference, right? It’s pretty big. It looked bigger than I expected.

Chris: Four thousand people.

Jake: Four? That’s a lot of people.

Chris: There were a lot of people there.

Jack: Yeah. It’s Okta’s main conference for the year. They’re showing new products that they’re offering and new features. There were a lot of their own customers there, too.

Jake: Okay.

Jack: They’re talking about customer success stories. That was one of the big themes of the year.

Jake: So is it mostly Okta customers and partners that are attending?

Chris: Oh yeah. I don’t think there was anyone there who wasn’t an Okta customer.

Jake: Okay.

Jack: Or potential buyers.

Chris: Potential buyers, yeah.

Jake: Yeah.

Chris: Viola Davis was there.

Jake: So 4,001. I know the name. I need a refresher on who that is.

Chris: She is an Academy Award-winning actress.

Jake: Oh.

Chris: You don’t know that?

Jack: Author, humanitarian.

Jake: Author of the book Murder One? Is she the murder person?

Chris: Yeah, she’s on—

Jack: She’s on the Netflix show.

Chris: Yeah, she’s on a show called How to Get Away with Murder. She’s also in the movie The Help and If Beale Street Could Talk. It’s also an Oscar-nominated film this year.

Jake: I vaguely knew who she was.

Chris: She’s an African-American actress who is the coolest, and I want to be her best friend. But there’s a little bit of background, because the last few years, it was in Vegas.

Jack: Yeah.

Chris: And I think we were all coming into it on a bit of a Vegas high, but overall, it feels like more of a networking conference to me.

Jake: Yeah. So that’s what I was wondering. If it’s all Okta partners and customers, is there much networking value? Because that doesn’t sound like any potential customers for Dark Rhino or a service provider.

Chris: Yeah. For someone like us who looks to manage that solution. Typically, Okta professional services are really expensive.

Jake: Okay.

Chris: So you find people who have bought the product and maybe haven’t implemented it fully, or who don’t want to manage it, and that’s typically what we do. So it’s a good opportunity for us. But you’re right: if you’re just a VAR who resells software, I don’t know.

Jake: There’s not much.

Chris: Yeah, it doesn’t seem like too many prospective clients. Another good point, though, is that all the Okta customers there probably just freshly bought Okta. They’re one or two months in with Okta, and not a whole lot else is going on with what else they have.

Jack: So they need other things that we offer, like CASB services or endpoint protection.

Chris: That’s true.

Jack: All that good stuff.

Jake: Gotcha. That makes sense.

Chris: So it’s a good opportunity for us to show them what we have.

Jake: What else can you do? Yeah. They might have just started with Okta, and they could have a couple of new opportunities come in.

Chris: Yeah. And I found some value in speaking to the customers that they had that had vendor stands there—for companies that I had never heard of, for services that I’d never heard of. For example, I met this cool company called Code42 that offers a next-gen DLP solution that seems pretty rad. So, I’m going out to their conference in Denver at the end of this month to see if the product is good enough for us to bring it under our stack. But that’s where I found value: speaking to a lot of those vendors, especially the ones with the smaller stands. Obviously, you had your big hitters that could afford the giant stands with multiple TVs, and they could afford a stool.

Jack: Shout out Moscone.

Chris: Should we tell that story? I think we should tell that. We could tell that story; it’s worth telling.

Jake: Yeah.

Chris: So, they charge like $500 a stool for these things.

Jake: A stool—like a singular, ridiculous seat?

Chris: Correct. And you’re renting the stool. You’re not taking it home.

Jake: You don’t get to take it. It’s not like a WrestleMania chair that has the image printed on it. You walk out with the chair.

Chris: Exactly. You can sit there for the hours that you’re in the conference. So, we noticed that this one stand near us had three stools, and our friend Soul here was standing for a while and decided, “Well, they have three. We could probably have one of those.” This was prior to us knowing the price of the stools. Then we got reprimanded hard.

Jake: Oh my God.

Chris: Talk about the sass on that guy.

Jack: Oh, sassy table guy. Dude came over and just reamed us about stealing the stool.

Chris: About the stool.

Jack: Yeah.

Jake: Who knew that was so expensive?

Chris: Man gave him some lip. This guy gave him all the sass. Table guy. Shout out Moscone Center table guy. Keep that guy on staff because nobody’s stealing stools if that guy’s working. But yeah, I found a lot of value. That was a sidetrack, but I found a lot of value in speaking to some of those smaller vendors that also couldn’t afford stools. They were there and had some recent Okta integrations that maybe I didn’t know about, or companies that we could potentially partner with in the future with Dark Rhino, so maybe we could start to offer some of those solutions as well.

Jake: Absolutely.

Chris: So for me, it was a networking conference too—not just for potential clients, but for potential partners as well.

Jake: Gotcha. That might be a security conference pro tip: look for the guys without the stools.

Chris: Yeah.

Jack: Yeah.

Jake: Those are the ones that are really trying to hustle. Okay, speakers. Who was there other than Viola Davis? Who else was speaking?

Jack: So, have you heard of Frank Abagnale, Jake?

Jake: Not at all.

Jack: Have you seen the movie Catch Me If You Can with Leonardo DiCaprio?

Jake: Yes.

Jack: That’s Frank Abagnale.

Chris: It’s Frank Abagnale Jr., yeah.

Jake: Oh, that guy. I haven’t seen the movie in a long time. What happened?

Chris: Airline fraud.

Jake: Yeah. Cool. Okay. So the actual guy that Leonardo DiCaprio plays in Catch Me If You Can.

Chris: Gotcha. But since all that happened, he’s been a top cybersecurity expert.

Jake: Makes sense.

Chris: Fraud prevention.

Jake: Cool. It kind of goes right in with what he does—what he did.

Chris: Did you catch him, Mitch?

Mitch: I didn’t get to see him. No, I was at the booth the entire time.

Jake: Did you see him at the bar?

Chris: Yeah. No, that was the last keynote. Unfortunately, we didn’t make it.

Jack: There was alcohol to be had.

Chris: There were much more pressing matters that were distilled. A lot of good wine in California, and we just had to explore that.

Jack: I would justify the fact that it was Dark Rhino’s second birthday.

Chris: Oh, that’s true. That’s actually why we left early to party. Yeah, we had a little party out there. You weren’t invited. That’s why we didn’t tell you.

Jake: I wasn’t invited. Well, I could have posted something on social media about it.

Chris: Yeah. April 2nd was our second anniversary.

Jack: But besides him, there was the inventor of the internet. Did any of you guys see—

Jake: Whoa.

Chris: Well, I would say inventor of the internet as in the World Wide Web. A person who monetized the invention of the internet.

Jake: What’s Tim? You’re trying to think of Al Gore, but it’s not—

Chris: Internet inventor Al Gore. [Laughter] No, this is Sir Tim something.

Jack: Sir Tim Berners-Lee.

Jake: Oh, he’s knighted.

Jack: He is. Yeah.

Chris: That is the most baller abbreviation you can get.

Jake: I think “Lord”—I mean—

Chris: “Lord,” yeah, it’s a good one.

Jack: No, there were some other cool partners that did some talks. Mostly, though, those were your three main keynotes—those three folks.

Jake: Okay. What did Viola Davis speak about, by the way?

Chris: Honest to God, I think her speech will be—or is already—posted on Okta’s website, and I encourage any listener to go and watch it because it was the coolest, most heartwarming speech I’ve ever watched in my life.

Jake: Well, there you go. We’ll definitely drop a link in the description.

Chris: Yeah, it was super inspiring. It was essentially the story of her life: growing up in poverty and in a really rough upbringing to where she is now, where she’s a multi-nominated actress. She’s going out and doing all these talks. She’s got a number one hit show and all of these things. But hearing her story on how she got there was really inspiring, and it was an amazing talk.

Jake: Awesome. Okay, I’ll have to go check that one out then.

Chris: Yeah.

Jake: Then we will drop the link.

Chris: She’s a very intense personality. It was a very intense talk. She brings you in. There was a room filled with probably 2,000 people.

Jack: Yeah, we were front row.

Jake: Nice.

Chris: Yeah. Literally not a whisper across the entire crowd. She commanded the entire room. It was super powerful.

Jack: Commanded the room.

Mitch: I totally wish I could have gone, but again, I was at the booth the entire time.

Chris: Booth babe.

Mitch: The entire time.

Chris: That’s the first three things I heard Mitch say about Oktane. To the first three people that asked him how Oktane was, he said, “I was at the booth the entire time.” [Laughter]

Mitch: And rightfully so. I mean, I’m salty now.

Jake: But yeah, other than those people that did those talks, we had talks with their customers. There were some cool product demos. I was going to say—any new, other than Code42, which we spoke on—any cool new technologies, new companies, things you hadn’t heard of before?

Chris: We liked Highfive a lot.

Jake: Highfive. Gotcha.

Chris: I didn’t get to—maybe you guys talk about Highfive. They’re similar to Zoom conferencing and video and audio conferencing. What’s pretty cool about them is they’ve partnered with Dolby. Dolby is known for their audio and video equipment and those things, to create their own hardware devices and slap their software on top of the hardware devices that are developed by Dolby. So they offer conferencing equipment that is crazy high-end.

Jake: Okay.

Chris: Super 4K video that will follow you around the room and do all of these crazy things.

Jack: Nice. For Okta customers, they were giving deals to customers there. They’re a really new company, so they want to get as many people on board right now to test things out. We are currently piloting some of their software, but they gave a talk as well that was super good.

Chris: And meeting people like that, who had some inspiring stories as to why—they’re really getting into this because current conference software out there is pretty bad. You know, Skype is—

Jack: Skype is the gripe of a lot of organizations that want to fix it.

Jake: “I’m not in, let me rejoin.” Yeah. There’s never a real smooth video conference.

Chris: Or there is the really outdated method of, “Oh, make me a presenter, please,” and they have to go through these steps of doing that. So they skip past all of that stuff.

Jack: You use Zoom, you’re trying to do a meeting with a client, they use Skype—vice versa. They have to download the app, yada yada yada.

Chris: Correct. Yeah. So they’re trying to cut out all of those steps. We really liked them. We had some good conversations with them.

Jake: Gotcha. Very good. You know how unprofessional it looks when something goes wrong in a Zoom meeting?

Chris: Exactly.

Jake: You know, your thing’s breaking. You have to apologize to the client based off something that you can’t control.

Chris: Yeah. Like, “Oh, I’m so sorry. This isn’t working, but I have no control over it.”

Jake: And it just shouldn’t be that difficult. It’s such a simple process. People do it a million times a day. They should have an easier scenario figured out. Well, maybe Highfive has done that.

Chris: Yeah, we’re hoping.

Jack: Only time will tell.

Jake: Good stuff.

Chris: We started piloting it as of yesterday. We got another demo from them yesterday, which went really well. So that was another thing too: some of the relationships that we formed out there. We’ve scheduled some meetings after Oktane to walk through some more demos. Like I said, I’m going to be heading out to the conference for Code42 to take a look at their product and get some more hands-on training.

Jake: Cool. Very cool.

Chris: Rad.

Jack: Most of the talks I went to were customer success stories, just because a lot of them are companies. We focus more on the smaller guys, like 5,000 users and less. So we don’t have too much insight into 20K users or 30K, things like that. Like huge logistics companies—

Chris: MLB. That dude gave a talk from Major League Baseball that was really cool about getting their whole integration set up for opening day.

Jake: Oh wow.

Chris: So they use Okta for all of their customers as well as internally. And so for opening day for MLB.TV, you have a lot of people logging in trying to either listen to or view this first game. So they spoke about the war room that they had set up for opening day this year, because this is their first full year with Okta completely running their platform.

Jake: I was not aware they were a working customer, but—

Chris: Yeah, it was a really cool talk. That was one of the things that impressed me: everything there was branded. I mean, as a conference as a whole, even the throw pillows on the couches were branded for the conference.

Jake: It’s a flex.

Chris: Yeah. The skylights—every single piece of the conference itself. Whoever is their marketing person—shout out, because it was awesome.

Jake: Honestly, let’s go around the room and give the over-under on how much Oktane cost.

Chris: Oh, man.

Jake: Them. How much Oktane cost them, not us.

Chris: Them to put it on. It cost us, but not that much.

Jack: Oh man, it’s got to be in the hundreds of thousands for all that. I mean, they had a decal on the outside of the Moscone Center that was just—

Jake: Well, that’s what I kept seeing: these pictures from the outside.

Jack: Just a vinyl decal that they had to stick there. It’s probably 16 feet each letter.

Jake: My wife is a designer professionally, so just the little stuff that she’s doing is normally a couple thousand. I can’t imagine just how much that singular decal cost. Just off what I saw—I obviously wasn’t there—but I would guess it was in the million range to put that on.

Chris: Yeah.

Jack: All the chairs were Okta.

Chris: Yeah. All the chairs had an Okta fabric thing.

Jake: All the expensive stools.

Chris: Not the expensive stools. No, that was sassy guy. That was a Moscone Center guy.

Jake: Gotcha. Gotcha.

Jack: No, but they had signs all over San Francisco.

Chris: True. Yeah.

Jake: That’s wild.

Chris: You’d see them from the bridge.

Jake: So my over-under: 750,000.

Chris: Okay. That’s fair. They had some costs that they probably cut. One of the cool things too is that if you look at our feeds, we have a picture in front of the Oktane official logo. When you walked in, that actually might not have been super expensive for them to do, because if you get really close to it, it was a 3D-printed letter. I’m not sure how intense those machines needed to be or if they already own those. But that cost could be low if they didn’t have to really outsource that. But all of those big, Instagram-worthy posts that they had—where you could stand next to the big letters—those were all 3D printed, which was pretty sweet.

Jack: I think it’s also worth mentioning the billboards just outside San Francisco. I’m not talking about an Okta billboard specifically here, but One Identity literally bought a billboard and was like, “notokta.com.”

Chris: Yeah. There was the Okta competitor that set up a billboard as you were leaving Oktane that said they were a different solution, and then they set up their URL to be notokta.com.

Jake: That is hilarious. [Laughter]

Chris: I mean, not endorsing them in any way. Don’t head to that website.

Jake: Still pretty—that was funny. That is pretty entertaining. All right. Best overall favorite part of Oktane. Mitch, I already know yours was manning the booth.

Mitch: I mean, yeah.

Jake: You’ve been very ecstatic about it since then.

Mitch: I met a lot of our good existing customers, and then I also met some new guys we might be talking to.

Jake: Right, potential future customers. Networking is always a huge benefit of conferences like that.

Mitch: Yeah. So I’d say my favorite part was the networking.

Jake: Gotcha.

Soul: I am a diehard Viola Davis fan.

Jake: Ladies and gentlemen, joining us: Soul Fabro. Soul, what’s your job description?

Soul: I would say I am a cloud consultant. I’ve been shadowing Mitch and Chris for the last few months, learning Okta inside and out.

Jake: Did you learn any more about Okta at Oktane?

Soul: I was mainly at the booth, so I think I did more networking, meeting people within the industry and learning about different companies that were there. I went to a few of the keynotes, but I didn’t really go to any of the Okta boot camps.

Jake: Okay. So, learning Okta, getting into the groove.

Soul: Yes.

Jake: Big Viola Davis fan.

Soul: Huge How to Get Away with Murder fan.

Jake: Okay.

Soul: I know her as an Oscar winner, Academy Award winner, Emmy winner. So getting to see her in person was surreal for me. But then getting to hear her story and learning how she got to where she is today—it was just incredible. I shed a few tears.

Jake: Oh, man.

Soul: I waited like 45 minutes before they would let us in. I sprinted and got into the third row. First two rows were reserved for Okta people. So we were as close as we could get.

Chris: We also awkwardly hung out in the bathroom.

Soul: Yeah, for a minute. She would come out.

Chris: Yeah. We were like, “Let’s go to the restroom in those bathrooms.”

Soul: Yeah.

Jake: Try and catch her and get an autograph. Bathroom autograph.

Soul: Bathroom autograph. Yeah. Then it was cool getting to meet a bunch of really smart, techie people during the day networking, and then getting to see them at night in a more fun environment. Everyone just kind of letting loose and having a good time.

Jake: Do the professional side first and then the more casual, relaxed side afterwards.

Soul: We also drank lattes with our faces on them. That was cool.

Jake: Oh, I saw that. I didn’t know it was a latte. I saw the picture and thought it was the lid to one of those bubble tea cups.

Soul: Yeah. So, they snap your picture and then they print it out, and then your latte comes out with your face on it.

Jake: Very cool.

Soul: I’m a sucker for those kinds of things. [Laughter]

Chris: My favorite was probably—this is like a two- or three-minute story. There’s this guy who taught Okta to Mitch and me like two years ago when we first started learning this stuff. His name is Jim Malay. Seemed like a super nice dude. We didn’t get to see him because we learned Okta through a week-long conference or something. It was like a GoToMeeting or something.

Mitch: Video conference.

Chris: Yeah. So, all you see is his LinkedIn headshot or whatever. He just seemed like a classic dad guy. I didn’t see him in Vegas the last two conferences. Every time I was there, I was looking for him so hard. And then the last night of Oktane this year, we’re at the afterparty, and there’s just this wild guy with a giant beard—huge, like a Gandalf beard—dancing in the front, and it was Jim Malay.

Jake: Oh man.

Chris: And I was like, “Man, I’ve been searching for you for the last three years, my master.” [Laughter]

Jake: That was like a whole Lord of the Rings movie right there.

Chris: Right. It’s a hero’s journey. I’m the hero. [Laughter] And we’re all dancing out there. It was really fun. And then they invited us out, but we didn’t make it because obviously Mitch had been staying at the booth all day. So we didn’t go out. But the next day, I texted him.

Mitch: No, we did go out.

Chris: No, I mean after that.

Mitch: Oh, okay. Okay.

Chris: To meet them at—they went to whatever.

Jake: Well, you guys did your own thing.

Chris: The afterparty. Yeah. So, we finally met him. I got all these pictures with him. The next day, I texted him, “Thanks, Jim. It was nice to meet you.” He remembered all of our names from that wild party. There was a DJ going too, and I was doing the yell in his ear because we couldn’t really talk.

Jake: Right. Right.

Chris: Yeah. 10 out of 10. Solid dude. Jim, it was nice to meet you if you ever hear this.

Jake: Shout out Jim Malay.

Jack: Yeah. My favorite part was probably that afterparty at the conference. There were good partners that we met there at the afterparty, where we could wind down and speak with them a little more casually. They had an artist playing there called Vulfpeck, which I really liked prior to the conference, and they put on an awesome show too. It was this really cool venue that a lot of bands in San Francisco have played. It’s called the—was it the Fillmore?

Chris: I don’t remember.

Jake: I’ve heard of the Fillmore.

Jack: I don’t know. It was the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium.

Jake: I have not heard of that auditorium.

Jack: There are a ton of concerts that happen there. Vulfpeck—V-U-L-F-P-E-C-K—is a funky band.

Chris: Yeah, exactly. This funk band, like funk jazz or whatever, and they put on a super fun show. And everybody—you know, it’s a security conference, so you’ve got a lot of nerds there, but it was super fun.

Jack: And it was a great time.

Chris: Didn’t he roast Okta, too?

Jack: Yeah, dude. Yeah.

Chris: The whole introduction was so weird. He was like, “I need—”

Jack: He was like, “What’s my help desk contact?” He was like, “So glad to be here at the OneLogin conference,” or something.

Chris: Yeah. [Laughter]

Jack: Yeah. He dogged on Okta. They were kind of in on the joke. But yeah, they put on a really good show. I would say that or the Viola Davis talk. Like I said, we’ll link that. I think that was probably my ultimate favorite part of going.

Jake: Best part. All right.

Chris: If the weather was good, it might have been the city. But—

Jake: Yeah. My favorite part of Oktane was having a nice, quiet office with none of you bothering me for a week.

Chris: True.

Jake: Although that really doesn’t happen. You guys just avoid me as much as possible when I’m trying to get anything podcast-related done.

Chris: Should we hide?

Jake: I’m having a nice time now.

Chris: Exactly. I don’t know why everyone’s complaining about it.

Jake: All right. So, most important part: from the time you got off the plane to the time you got back on the plane, what was the best meal you ate?

Chris: I went to this place—I met an old co-worker that I had worked with at a previous company out there, and we went to this restaurant called Marlowe.

Jake: Okay.

Chris: That was one of the characters from The Wire. Side note, if anybody remembers that. It was just this crazy meal filled with a lot of meat.

Jake: Filled with a lot of meat?

Chris: Oh yeah, there were a lot of meats.

Jake: What else could you ask for in a great setting? It was not Arby’s.

Chris: No. You know they have the meats. They do have the meats. They didn’t have as many as Marlowe did. And that was a super crazy good meal. So I enjoyed that.

Jake: Okay. Wait, so was it one of these Brazilian steakhouse-type places where they just keep bringing meats?

Chris: It was a hipster San Francisco place where they bring you little baby plates of everything, but then all of a sudden they just have so many different meat dishes. I don’t know.

Jake: Gotcha. I’m a big fan of meats.

Chris: Yeah.

Jake: What was it called? Did you say—

Chris: Marlowe.

Jake: Marlowe.

Mitch: Jack and I went to this crazy restaurant, man. We had traveled probably 20 minutes in an Uber to just get one mile. Oh my God, this place was so worth it, dude. I don’t even know where to start with it. I’m talking style.

Jack: I’m talking about In-N-Out.

Mitch: Oh yeah. Yeah. I forgot about that. Yeah, we did get an Uber to go to In-N-Out like half a mile away.

Jake: Why didn’t you just walk?

Mitch: Because I don’t remember actually what our purpose was. We had to be back. Oh, he had to be booth babe.

Jack: I had to be booth babe.

Mitch: Oh yeah.

Jack: Yeah, it was kind of rainy, too. It wasn’t nice enough for us to—it wasn’t like cool California walking.

Mitch: Yeah, we had In-N-Out. That was good. I like Shake Shack better, though. Shout out Shake Shack Columbus. We’re going to get two here soon.

Jake: Oh, nice.

Mitch: Yeah.

Jake: Good to know.

Mitch: East one in Short North.

Jake: Oh, I live in the Short North.

Mitch: There you go.

Soul: I would say the In-N-Out. I’m a huge In-N-Out fan. I need to try my burger and my fries animal style, which is on the secret menu. It’s their special burger sauce with spices and onion, and then they put it on your burger.

Jake: You guys are making me really hungry for a burger. All right, the resident culinary expert—culinary enthusiast, at least.

Chris: So, I thought the freshest fish we had was at that place that we all went to for dinner: Sam’s Tavern. Old restaurant.

Jake: What fish?

Chris: We had oysters as a starter.

Jake: They’re raw.

Chris: I like raw oysters.

Jake: On the shell, dude.

Chris: The guy told us they were pulled out of the bay the day before, and they definitely tasted like they were fresh. But an oyster shot—I have not had that before. A shot of vodka, plop an oyster right into the shot glass with it, and then a little bit of hot sauce. You just slam the whole thing.

Jake: That doesn’t sound that bad.

Chris: Yeah, it’s not.

Jake: I could accomplish that.

Chris: Mhm.

Jake: Give me an In-N-Out to Five Guys comparison. If In-N-Out’s a nine, where’s Five Guys on there?

Soul: A three?

Mitch: Five Guys has a lot of options. I like Five Guys. Five Guys is a completely different restaurant.

Jake: Oh, really? I thought they were kind of similar.

Mitch: Yes and no. At Five Guys, you can get hot dogs and stuff. Like In-N-Out, it’s only—

Jake: Burger to burger.

Mitch: Burger to burger. In-N-Out every time.

Jake: But I’m saying, how far is the gap?

Soul: Very far.

Chris: It is marginally better. I would say if In-N-Out’s a nine, Five Guys is a seven.

Jake: That’s what I was thinking. That’s not too far off.

Soul: Oh, it’s not a step up.

Chris: It’s a good burger.

Mitch: I like options, and you don’t really get those at In-N-Out. You can get a million toppings at Five Guys.

Jake: If In-N-Out is the very first Fast and Furious movie, which Fast and Furious movie is Five Guys?

Chris: Tokyo Drift. Easy.

Jake: How many are there now?

Chris: Tokyo Drift.

Jack: That one’s pretty debatable, though. Tokyo Drift—I hear really good things about it from some people and really bad things about it from other people.

Chris: So in my point of view, it’s really good.

Jake: I think it’s a good movie, too. [Laughter]

Chris: They just took a break from the whole Paul Walker/Vin Diesel story. So it doesn’t really involve the rest of the Fast and Furious plot much.

Jake: No, Vin Diesel is in it at the end.

Chris: It is a decent movie. Yeah, Vin Diesel did make a cameo at the end.

Jake: That was awesome. I think 2 Fast 2 Furious is one of the worst movies that was ever filmed.

Chris: But wait—period?

Jake: That was Tyrese Gibson, right? That was his movie. One of the worst actors of all time, Tyrese Gibson. [Laughter]

Chris: Vin Diesel is the staple of that movie franchise.

Jake: Five Guys.

Jack: There’s a new one coming out, isn’t there? With The Rock.

Chris: I’m sure there is. There’s always a new one coming out. It’s kind of like—I don’t know how to describe it.

Jack: A spin-off.

Chris: A spin-off, yeah.

Jake: Aren’t they already spin-offs?

Chris: Jason Statham and The Rock. Literally people just came into the franchise.

Jake: He doesn’t go by “The Rock” anymore. He goes by Dwayne Johnson. Apparently, if you call him strictly The Rock, WWE owns that. He doesn’t own it.

Chris: But he was still going by that for at least the last five years.

Jake: Yeah, because that was his recognition. Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson.

Chris: So what was just Dwayne Johnson?

Jake: I mean, he’s been out of the WWE for more than the last five years. What changed recently where he’s cutting out “The Rock”?

Chris: He’s the highest-paid movie star in all of Hollywood as of the last two years. So he just wants to start being recognized as an individual, not as “wrestler guy.”

Jake: Doesn’t want to be viewed as a piece of geology.

Chris: Geode.

Jake: Yeah. A mineral geode.

Chris: Mineral, indeed.

Jake: Well, sounds like everybody had a good time at Oktane.

Chris: Yeah, overall good thoughts.

Mitch: Lots of fun sitting at the booth.

Chris: I’d go back. Hoping it’s in Vegas in a few years. But they did say that a lot more people were showing up to the 8 a.m. keynote speakers due to it not being in Vegas. [Laughter]

Jake: I could see that. Yeah, if you’re doing anything in Vegas, you shouldn’t start until at least noon.

Chris: Right.

Jake: Thanks again for joining us, and as always, be sure to subscribe and visit us at darkrhinosecurity.com.